Don’t over think that Grisham was nice piece to have on our team. But, Grish will have to keep up his level of play in order to keep his value for the Yanks!
I have always looked at him as a good replacement, no more!
The pessimistic view is they fell for a contract year career outlier and have decided they aren’t willing to spend on Tucker or even Bellinger based on what they think his market will be or maybe they are but to a certain point, which will be infuriating if they’re just short less than $20M annually in the Tucker bidding.
The optimistic way of looking at it is that they need an outfielder who can play CF and play it well. It’s not in anyone’s best interest to have Judge play there more than once in a blue moon and even if Dominguez gets the first crack at it, you can’t go into the season without a good alternative plan so lock up Grisham for this year now and sign Tucker to play LF.
Unfortunately these are the types of moves that tend to blow up in Cashman’s face in one way or another.
both by eye test and the metrics available at Statcast and Baseball Reference, which both have him in well below average territory for 2025. That won't help his market.
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
I was also assuming there's almost 0 chance he accepts this. Maybe I put too small a % on that? It would be quite a gamble for him to sign it, but I guess crazier shit has happened.
Only 6 OFs in all of MLB made more than $22M in 2025
lockout looming, I don't think the chance of Grisham accepting QO is less than 5%, which is 5% too high for me. This probably just means they are not high on Dominguez/Jones, and maybe they are not serious about pursuing Tucker.
They already offered Dominguez for Tucker last year and then Duran this year. I'd much rather give Dominguez a chance rather than brining Grisham back, but that's not the Cashman way. They also don't seem to be clearing a path for Jones either.
Just trade Dominguez, Jones and one of Gil/Warren for Perdomo. Re-sign Bellinger, get some relievers, and take our chances in October. That's not at all what I would like to see, but knowing Cashman and his expensive/inefficient way of team building, that's what I can hope for.
Best case scenario is that Spencer Jones turns out to be Judge 2.0, Dominguez proves he's better than Kevin Mass 2.0, Judge is Judge and they don't need Grisham. Then they can always move him.
Worst case scenario is that Jones turns out to be a one dimensional butcher like Dominguez, Judge has to DH half the time and Belli walks. This is good insurance.
There's a good chance he accepts the QA. He's unlikely to get a long term deal based on one good year.
is that the Yankees either knew for sure, or think there is an incredibly high chance, that Grisham doesn't sign it. I guess we'll see. Before reading everyone's comments, I was in the same boat, but now some of you have gotten me nervous.
I don't think him signing it is the very end of the world, but it reduces flexibility, basically rules out Tucker, and points pretty heavily towards trading Jasson or Spencer Jones.
Despite posting a bit here, I'm mostly doing work rn, but stay tuned into what the YES guys like Jack Curry say.
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
It wouldn't be the worst thing if Grisham accepts it.
Though not an overly exciting player, he is talented. Former 15th overall pick. It's just a 1 year, CYA commitment.
If Spencer didn't K 35% of his ABs last year, it wouldn't be necessary. Who knows if they can re-sign Bellinger and I'm not counting on Tucker either. Hopefully they give 500+ ABs for Dominguez. I don't expect any real big OF signings this offseason, unless a reasonable deal with Bellinger can be ironed out.
hamstring at the end of the season. He was smooth but range was suspect, he flatly gave up on a some fly balls.
He may very well sign with someone for 3/40M, we can only hope, but a 4th comp pick isn't worth the risk when you are quadrupling his salary. All the other players receiving QO have sustained success, even Gleyber!!
We just know LAD will make smart moves, and outspend their mistakes. Meanwhile we have Hal the penny pincher, relatively speaking of course, letting Cashman make questionable moves. So frustrating. Defense - ( New Window )
I’m not confident there’s a team willing to offer Grisham a multi year deal while also giving up draft picks to do it. I’m guessing once his team evaluates the market he will accept it.
Also, Michael Kay has been pretty adamant that he doesn’t think Spencer Jones will ever play for the Yankees. I’m not sure if he has inside knowledge or not but he says the team is not high on him due to the strikeouts.
signifies that they are worried about being able to keep Belly.
The problem is Grisham, Dominguez and Jones all struggle to hit lefties. Combined with McMahon and Rice percived as everyday players with poor splits and you have a severe weakness.
they really need a different guy to be the 4th OF.
Oh and then there is the very real chance of him regressing to his norm.
Is the smartest GM in baseball. That's why he's the only one with a lifetime contract.
He's playing 3D chess while all of MLB plays checkers. His record speaks for itself.
The Yankees have made the playoffs 16 times in the 21 years he's been the Yankees GM without any internal interference from George and his notorious Tampa shadow GMs. Plus he won the World Series in 2009.
Who are we chattel to question this great man's decisions?
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
Sometimes you have to look big picture.
Anyone paying attention realizes that there will be a lockout at the end of the 2026 WS and that there will be a long and nasty lockout, likely costing at least a good chunk of games in 2027.
If you are Grisham and his agent, do you take the $22M now and have to scramble in a FA frenzy when the lockout ends- where players of his caliber end up taking what's left? Unlikely- and not in the client's best interests.
To many, taking a 3 year $45M deal looks like he's leaving money on the table- he would not be. He would have a guaranteed contract and not be in a FA scramble in 2027.
Do not be surprised this winter if you see good players try to lock up extensions into 2028 or later. Of course, that isn't in most teams interests so it might be limited to contending teams.
For those who remember the last lockout that extended into the season, there were a LOT of vets who had no job when the season started and ended up taking pennies on the dollar just to get signed later. Remember Camp Vet in Florida run by MLBPA? Agents learned a hard lesson that year.
Do NOT be surprised if ALL of the QOs are rejected for just that reason- the players' agents are going to push to have then signed through at least 2027 or later instead of taking the shiny object now.
Rich I agree 100% and to go a step further it wouldn't surprise me if the agents for the top free agents try to minimize their clients 2027 salaries as much as possible in mid to long term deals.
I think there is a better of chance of not having a 2027 season at all than even having a partial season if the owners insist on a salary cap. I think the owners know that and they're willing to cancel 2027 and part of 2028 to get their cap if they have to.
If Hal cares about wining another WS he'd go all in for 2026 and bump his spending to at least 50% of his team's revenue (which is still low). I doubt he will.
Personally I wouldn't mind a MLB salary cap that would raise the floor and lower the ceiling for all teams to make the sport more competitive for every fan base. I think it would be hilarious watching the Yankees try to compete without being able to spend 2 or 3 times more on players than 85% of the other MLB teams.
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
Sometimes you have to look big picture.
Anyone paying attention realizes that there will be a lockout at the end of the 2026 WS and that there will be a long and nasty lockout, likely costing at least a good chunk of games in 2027.
If you are Grisham and his agent, do you take the $22M now and have to scramble in a FA frenzy when the lockout ends- where players of his caliber end up taking what's left? Unlikely- and not in the client's best interests.
To many, taking a 3 year $45M deal looks like he's leaving money on the table- he would not be. He would have a guaranteed contract and not be in a FA scramble in 2027.
Do not be surprised this winter if you see good players try to lock up extensions into 2028 or later. Of course, that isn't in most teams interests so it might be limited to contending teams.
For those who remember the last lockout that extended into the season, there were a LOT of vets who had no job when the season started and ended up taking pennies on the dollar just to get signed later. Remember Camp Vet in Florida run by MLBPA? Agents learned a hard lesson that year.
Do NOT be surprised if ALL of the QOs are rejected for just that reason- the players' agents are going to push to have then signed through at least 2027 or later instead of taking the shiny object now.
That’s all great but there are two sides to this. Sure, Grisham likely wants a long term deal with the lockout looking imminent. But the owners on the other side will look at it differently. Who’s going to want to sign him plus give up picks if there is any chance that they will be pushing for some kind of salary cap? It takes two to tango. I just can’t see there being a robust market for Grisham regardless of what he and his agents want
The other players are looking at I don't know 100-150M vs 22M,
Grisham is looking at 40 vs 22. A 4th round pick just isn't a big enough reward to warrant that risk.
Problem is what this potentially reveals what they are leaning towards, I don't think any of us would mind keeping one spot open for the kids and one spot for either Tucker or Belli. Having Grisham in the mix only means bad things, at 22M he ain't gonna come off the bench. Nobody expected both Bellinger and Tucker.
Sign Bellinger. By all accounts, Dominguez will play winter ball, maybe he becomes our Chourio or Merrill at LF. Jones can sub in when Stanton reliably gets hurt.
Then go work on the rest of the team.
Every offseason there are non-star FA’s who get the QO
and it totally wrecks their market. Now with a lockout looming, it’s not a smart risk to take at least from here without knowing what kind of information they have that we don’t.
not sure why Trent can't do this again in 26. Cody had a better year here too. So did Jazz to some extent. And Max had a career year here. Maybe the Yanks don't ruin players sometimes they actually help them? Nah can't be.
I mean, neither would be worth it and I don't want either back, but it seems much more likely that Williams would get a good offer from another team than Grisham. So, if the pick was that important, Cashman would've offered a QO to Williams as well.
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
RE: So how do we explain the fact they didn't offer QO to Williams?
I mean, neither would be worth it and I don't want either back, but it seems much more likely that Williams would get a good offer from another team than Grisham. So, if the pick was that important, Cashman would've offered a QO to Williams as well.
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
Never heard that Williams could be offered a QO....
RE: So how do we explain the fact they didn't offer QO to Williams?
I mean, neither would be worth it and I don't want either back, but it seems much more likely that Williams would get a good offer from another team than Grisham. So, if the pick was that important, Cashman would've offered a QO to Williams as well.
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
The Yanks could have offered QOs to Williams and Weaver, but do you want to pay a reliever $22M when you can get a good one for a few million? At least $22M is reasonable for an OF
RE: So how do we explain the fact they didn't offer QO to Williams?
I mean, neither would be worth it and I don't want either back, but it seems much more likely that Williams would get a good offer from another team than Grisham. So, if the pick was that important, Cashman would've offered a QO to Williams as well.
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
The Yanks could have offered QOs to Williams and Weaver, but do you want to pay a reliever $22M when you can get a good one for a few million? At least $22M is reasonable for an OF
But perhaps with Bellinger and maybe Tucker not being available, they do not want to be left empty handed.
I have always looked at him as a good replacement, no more!
If he's coming back at 22M, Hal is not going to let him be a 4th OF...
The pessimistic view is they fell for a contract year career outlier and have decided they aren’t willing to spend on Tucker or even Bellinger based on what they think his market will be or maybe they are but to a certain point, which will be infuriating if they’re just short less than $20M annually in the Tucker bidding.
The optimistic way of looking at it is that they need an outfielder who can play CF and play it well. It’s not in anyone’s best interest to have Judge play there more than once in a blue moon and even if Dominguez gets the first crack at it, you can’t go into the season without a good alternative plan so lock up Grisham for this year now and sign Tucker to play LF.
Unfortunately these are the types of moves that tend to blow up in Cashman’s face in one way or another.
Probably not. But we shall see. If he does that would suck
And he turned 29 on 11/1, for what that's worth.
I was also assuming there's almost 0 chance he accepts this. Maybe I put too small a % on that? It would be quite a gamble for him to sign it, but I guess crazier shit has happened.
Of course there is the trade off between taking the one-year and the hypothetical multi-year, but $22M per is a nice payday.
They already offered Dominguez for Tucker last year and then Duran this year. I'd much rather give Dominguez a chance rather than brining Grisham back, but that's not the Cashman way. They also don't seem to be clearing a path for Jones either.
Just trade Dominguez, Jones and one of Gil/Warren for Perdomo. Re-sign Bellinger, get some relievers, and take our chances in October. That's not at all what I would like to see, but knowing Cashman and his expensive/inefficient way of team building, that's what I can hope for.
Worst case scenario is that Jones turns out to be a one dimensional butcher like Dominguez, Judge has to DH half the time and Belli walks. This is good insurance.
There's a good chance he accepts the QA. He's unlikely to get a long term deal based on one good year.
I don't think him signing it is the very end of the world, but it reduces flexibility, basically rules out Tucker, and points pretty heavily towards trading Jasson or Spencer Jones.
Despite posting a bit here, I'm mostly doing work rn, but stay tuned into what the YES guys like Jack Curry say.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
If Spencer didn't K 35% of his ABs last year, it wouldn't be necessary. Who knows if they can re-sign Bellinger and I'm not counting on Tucker either. Hopefully they give 500+ ABs for Dominguez. I don't expect any real big OF signings this offseason, unless a reasonable deal with Bellinger can be ironed out.
Batting him leadoff was a colossal brain fart by whomever is calling the shots.
He may very well sign with someone for 3/40M, we can only hope, but a 4th comp pick isn't worth the risk when you are quadrupling his salary. All the other players receiving QO have sustained success, even Gleyber!!
We just know LAD will make smart moves, and outspend their mistakes. Meanwhile we have Hal the penny pincher, relatively speaking of course, letting Cashman make questionable moves. So frustrating.
Defense - ( New Window )
Also, Michael Kay has been pretty adamant that he doesn’t think Spencer Jones will ever play for the Yankees. I’m not sure if he has inside knowledge or not but he says the team is not high on him due to the strikeouts.
Take that for what it’s worth
The problem is Grisham, Dominguez and Jones all struggle to hit lefties. Combined with McMahon and Rice percived as everyday players with poor splits and you have a severe weakness.
they really need a different guy to be the 4th OF.
Oh and then there is the very real chance of him regressing to his norm.
He's playing 3D chess while all of MLB plays checkers. His record speaks for itself.
The Yankees have made the playoffs 16 times in the 21 years he's been the Yankees GM without any internal interference from George and his notorious Tampa shadow GMs. Plus he won the World Series in 2009.
Who are we chattel to question this great man's decisions?
Quote:
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
Sometimes you have to look big picture.
Anyone paying attention realizes that there will be a lockout at the end of the 2026 WS and that there will be a long and nasty lockout, likely costing at least a good chunk of games in 2027.
If you are Grisham and his agent, do you take the $22M now and have to scramble in a FA frenzy when the lockout ends- where players of his caliber end up taking what's left? Unlikely- and not in the client's best interests.
To many, taking a 3 year $45M deal looks like he's leaving money on the table- he would not be. He would have a guaranteed contract and not be in a FA scramble in 2027.
Do not be surprised this winter if you see good players try to lock up extensions into 2028 or later. Of course, that isn't in most teams interests so it might be limited to contending teams.
For those who remember the last lockout that extended into the season, there were a LOT of vets who had no job when the season started and ended up taking pennies on the dollar just to get signed later. Remember Camp Vet in Florida run by MLBPA? Agents learned a hard lesson that year.
Do NOT be surprised if ALL of the QOs are rejected for just that reason- the players' agents are going to push to have then signed through at least 2027 or later instead of taking the shiny object now.
I think there is a better of chance of not having a 2027 season at all than even having a partial season if the owners insist on a salary cap. I think the owners know that and they're willing to cancel 2027 and part of 2028 to get their cap if they have to.
If Hal cares about wining another WS he'd go all in for 2026 and bump his spending to at least 50% of his team's revenue (which is still low). I doubt he will.
Personally I wouldn't mind a MLB salary cap that would raise the floor and lower the ceiling for all teams to make the sport more competitive for every fan base. I think it would be hilarious watching the Yankees try to compete without being able to spend 2 or 3 times more on players than 85% of the other MLB teams.
Quote:
In comment 17001631 rich in DC said:
Quote:
He’s 28 and coming off his best season ever. He wants a multi-year deal. No agent in the world will let him accept that.
IDK rich. What team is willing to offer him good money on a 3 or 4 year contract? 3/$45 maybe? Does he take that, or take the QO, hoping to come close to his 2025 in 2026 and then get a bigger contract?
I hope he turns it down and forces Cashman to go after Bellinger or Tucker.
Sometimes you have to look big picture.
Anyone paying attention realizes that there will be a lockout at the end of the 2026 WS and that there will be a long and nasty lockout, likely costing at least a good chunk of games in 2027.
If you are Grisham and his agent, do you take the $22M now and have to scramble in a FA frenzy when the lockout ends- where players of his caliber end up taking what's left? Unlikely- and not in the client's best interests.
To many, taking a 3 year $45M deal looks like he's leaving money on the table- he would not be. He would have a guaranteed contract and not be in a FA scramble in 2027.
Do not be surprised this winter if you see good players try to lock up extensions into 2028 or later. Of course, that isn't in most teams interests so it might be limited to contending teams.
For those who remember the last lockout that extended into the season, there were a LOT of vets who had no job when the season started and ended up taking pennies on the dollar just to get signed later. Remember Camp Vet in Florida run by MLBPA? Agents learned a hard lesson that year.
Do NOT be surprised if ALL of the QOs are rejected for just that reason- the players' agents are going to push to have then signed through at least 2027 or later instead of taking the shiny object now.
That’s all great but there are two sides to this. Sure, Grisham likely wants a long term deal with the lockout looking imminent. But the owners on the other side will look at it differently. Who’s going to want to sign him plus give up picks if there is any chance that they will be pushing for some kind of salary cap? It takes two to tango. I just can’t see there being a robust market for Grisham regardless of what he and his agents want
Problem is what this potentially reveals what they are leaning towards, I don't think any of us would mind keeping one spot open for the kids and one spot for either Tucker or Belli. Having Grisham in the mix only means bad things, at 22M he ain't gonna come off the bench. Nobody expected both Bellinger and Tucker.
Sign Bellinger. By all accounts, Dominguez will play winter ball, maybe he becomes our Chourio or Merrill at LF. Jones can sub in when Stanton reliably gets hurt.
Then go work on the rest of the team.
I wonder if the Yankees think Grisham's defensive decline was due to a nagging injury versus skill erosion?
Btw, potentially lost in a previous thread, Tim Hill is coming back, which is awesome.
Batting him leadoff was a colossal brain fart by whomever is calling the shots.
The bigger problem was that they had no other alternative. That has to change this offseason.
Not really "trying to keep him." They offered a little qualifier so they'd get a draft pick if and when some team offers him a long term deal.
He'd be a steal on the one year QO if no one signed him.
The Yanks said they want Cody back.
I don't think this offer means anything much.
If he ends up on the dodgers feels like that will be the move that breaks the current system.
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
Never heard that Williams could be offered a QO....
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
The Yanks could have offered QOs to Williams and Weaver, but do you want to pay a reliever $22M when you can get a good one for a few million? At least $22M is reasonable for an OF
Maybe they do want Grisham back....
The Yanks could have offered QOs to Williams and Weaver, but do you want to pay a reliever $22M when you can get a good one for a few million? At least $22M is reasonable for an OF